This is from the comment section of part of the video Q & A of the Teleseminar that I recently did with Sheila Granger. This responder is trying to call my interview guest a liar as she also attacks all the American readers. Here’s what she says:
-
“oh come on you silly yanks
50 clients at £350 per client = £17,500 per week
= £910,000 per year!
she should be a millionare !
and errrr ……. do you real y think she can see 50 clients a week …… i find it mentally draining to see more than 15
us english people think she is “lifting your leg” !!!!
be weary !!!!”
And this is my response:
-
“Hi Clare,
It’s not really polite to denigrate your host in the comment section, but I can play, even though you refer to me as a “silly yank”. I assume that you are a hypnotist, but that might not be accurate. I’m not really sure that you identified yourself correctly in your post, so I don’t want anyone to assume that the name listed for you actually means that you are that person.
Your numbers seem to accurately portray a successful hypnosis practice, probably far more successful than what a single practitioner could possibly look to bring in charging that small amount per client. And I say small amount because from what I can see when researching on the internet the prices that Sheila charges appear to be less than half of what other hypnotists charge in Europe for similar weight loss programs. So I get it, … other hypnotists might not look favorably upon someone that challenges the status quo. Especially if it eats into your earning potential, and might seem to be taking customers away from your own business.
Now the numbers that you put up there are not quite what Sheila claimed and there’s a big discrepancy that brings your total out of that unbelievable range and down to earthly statistics. First off, she stated that she sees 40-50 clients per week. Assuredly a very large number of clients that would make mere mortals like me quite spent at the end of the day, but certainly doable. I know personally of a hypnotist here in the states that saw similar numbers after getting favorable press on TV a few years ago, and also as a result has sold millions of dollars in recorded sales.
But the really big discrepancy that you have in your stats, is that the price she’s charging is per client and not per session. You calculated her client fee as if it was for 200 clients per month, when it’s actually 1/4 of that.
I understand your rush to judgment because your model of doing hypnosis is challenged. And that’s the whole point of this training. I’m looking to take my hypnosis trainings to a whole new level. I want to be able to reach more clients and help more people. I’m willing to lower my prices, which are also far more than what Sheila charges and see if I can be as successful with my clients as Sheila is with hers.
Perhaps it’s you silly English people that are stuck in your ways.
And just as a side note, how come it’s “you silly yanks”, and “us english people”? Why didn’t you say “us limey’s” so at least you would be consistent in your use of slang? As a hypnotist I look to build bridges, not tear them down.”
To which she responds:
-
“fool !!”
To which I respond:
-
“Clare, you’ve obviously allowed your emotions to run away from you on this topic. Not a good showing for a professional in any field, but especially bad form for a hypnotist.”
Now I’d like to know if it is possible to see as many clients a week as Sheila is seeing. I have been seeing clients for over 12 years, and the length of time that I see clients now is a good half of what I spent when I first started out. When I took my first training, my teacher taught his style of doing hypnosis which involved working clients through a very intense session where he guided them through every technique that he had ever learned all in one session. It could take him 3 hours, or it could take him 5 or more hours. And that was the model that I started seeing clients with. I quickly learned how to accomplish things better. I learned how to break up the process so I could send the client home and have them integrate the new responses into their every day life. I learned how to wrap up a session so we could get back to it at a later time. I found out that the shorter sessions was a much better way of doing things. So as I got better at it, I got more experienced at it because I was able to see more clients and my clients appreciated the process more and got better results.
So you could say as I streamlined the whole process and shortened the sessions the programs became a higher quality product as well. Not unheard of at all as we often find that as we increase productivity we usually also increase quality. There is also a point of diminishing returns, so I think you should monitor your results.
I have never personally seen 40-50 clients a week. I think the most I had ever seen was 20 clients in a week. I have seen up to 10 clients in one day. I wasn’t fatigued at the end of the day, I was energized and had trouble going to sleep. Maybe that was fatigue. But I didn’t feel drained. But not having had the experience of seeing that many clients and wanting to know if that was even possible I did some research and went to a reliable source.
I remember when the national news show “Dateline” aired an ongoing report on the different methods of weight loss. One of the methods investigated was hypnosis, and they used the services of Tom Nicoli to work with a baker. Tom was very successful at helping this baker lose weight and the reason I remember that show so well is that I got very busy because of all the great publicity that Tom’s appearance on that show generated for all the hypnotists nationwide, including me.
I also remember reading somewhere about Tom being extremely busy as a result of the show as well. So I called Tom up to find out just how busy. This is what he told me. He became so busy after the show that he had to extend his hours so that he was seeing clients from 7 am to 10 pm – 7 days/week. I’ll say that again… 7 am – 10 pm (that’s 15 hours ) Monday through Sunday – 7 days/ week (that’s working 105 hours/week). And Tom’s sessions were 1 hour long so that’s seeing 105 clients/week. He did that for 6 months. And yes there were repercussions for Tom. He had to slow down because that was too much for his body to effectively handle. And that’s why he only did it for 6 months. Still, that is over twice the number of clients that Sheila says she’s been seeing for the past 8 months. And she is looking to decrease the numbers as well and teach others how to use the program that she developed.
So the question was, is it possible to see 50 clients a week? And the answer is a resounding yes! Just remember that it is a choice as to whether you need to see that number or not. You can develop a nice waiting list so that you can plan your future more efficiently, knowing that you have enough business to last into the next quarter, or even the next year. When you work for your self there’s a definite level of comfort having your time pre-booked. And that’s also part of the training that Sheila is presenting this October. She’s offering a kind of business in a box. She’s also supplying her PR force to jump start this new business over here in North America so we can all benefit from the publicity and the public curiosity that will be out there. If you want to be ready to take advantage of the new business we’re expecting from this new creative solution to the overweight market then join us on October 15-17, 2010 for a powerful business building virtual gastric band seminar. For all the details check out the virtual gastric band training.
What do you think? Do you think you could handle 40-50 clients a week? Do you think it’s possible for a hypnotist to see that many clients in a week? Post your comments below:
Beautifully stated/argued, Marc. Your position is unassailable; you’ve made it clear that while Sheila is earning very well, it’s not astronomical income, it’s good solid income.
And while I think reasonable people would agree that Clare wasn’t being polite and isn’t giving you any further explanation on her doubts… there is something to be said for the doubts she raised, or they wouldn’t have arisen in the first place. There may be others out there who still think this is all unreasonable or somehow “stretched” from the truth.
Yet your points are clear — Sheila’s working a lot of hours, charging by the month, charging a reasonable fee for (I presume) a month’s worth of sessions, making quite a bit of money (but not astronomical), and she’s benefiting from valuable publicity. And publicity can potentially bring in very large amounts of business, far beyond the normal scope of what professionals in many fields normally see/receive.
For any professional hypnotists looking for more clients, more business, more work, I can see ONLY two useful questions here:
(1) How effective are the sessions short-term & long-term, and
(2) How much more publicity is this topic likely to receive in US and/or British media?
Because as long as (1) people get great results, you’ll get automatic referrals of others, and (2) any “unique/new” use of hypnosis is getting mainstream press, then that’s virtually a guaranteed stream of income for any hypnotist who has an interest in doing that kind of work.
Hi Jonathan,
Thanks for adding your highly regarded expertise to the discussion.
Your questions are right on target.
1- How effective are the sessions? I’m asking attendees coming in October to participate in trials and studies of the process that we’ll be learning. So far I’ve gotten quite a few responses here and on other forums concerned about whether the client is getting what they came for. And I totally agree that the primary outcome that we all want is for the program to successfully help as many people as possible to take back control over their food consumption and activity levels. It’s not about seeing the most clients possible, but about helping as many people as we can.
2- How much publicity is this topic likely to get? I don’t know. Publicity is not controlled by us little folks. Hypnosis has always been an interesting topic. With 60% of the population being overweight and becoming an increasing burden on the health care system, I think that’s a very large segment of the country that can’t be ignored. Since I recently started doing the trials on the virtual gastric band, I’ve been contacted by a number of the producers from news programs, so I know they are searching for stories around this process.
Hi Marc:
Thanks for sharing that intense conflict?
As an Acupuncturist, I understand the interest in numbers of sessions per day or week. Acupuncturists are fed a model like you wouldn’t believe, by Chinese teachers in US schools. We hear stories of Acupuncturists in China seeing over 100 patients per day. And many of these Chinese Acupuncturists can see 40 patients per day here. They move fast and don’t take time to fully examine patients, putting all of the treatment emphasis on the Acupuncture alone, which in my view is unprofessional, medically and ethically. End result is, if the Acupuncture works, fine, if not, no attention to discuss it. Acupuncture can be quick and easy, putting in needles. It’s the time to connect with people that makes a difference for me. And I know my patients appreciate the time I spend with them.
Hypnosis can be the same thing, although it takes a lot longer to provide a hypnosis session for someone. I am very careful about integrating it into my practice.
At the end of anything, it depends on several factors whether the therapist can maintain that many patients or not, and still remain effective. Being detached from the work and clearing oneself is important, which some are better at than others. It seems that if a therapist has an effective business model, the appropriate thing to do is to higher support staff.
Hi Stephen,
Yes, I agree, the hypnotist still has to remain effective. But how do we determine what effective means? I have read quite a few responses to this question on another forum that stated that doing more than X number of sessions would lower the quality of the sessions. I just wonder who determined that upper end number?
Like in Clare’s response, she stated that 15 clients/week is her limit. And since we want to make sure that the sessions are effective, I wonder how Clare knows that she’s doing effective work? Maybe her upper limit is really 6/week? How do we know what that is unless we follow up and see what the client says, not check to see how tired we are!
I don’t know how many patients doctors see in a day. They spend very little time with their patients and the medical model these days seems to be more focused on bringing in the loot, than on connecting with the patient. I’m not advocating that approach here. That seems to be a similar approach to what they do in China with their very high numbers. I get a sense that people think if they cut down on the number of customers (clients/patients) they see they will get better results. I don’t think this is necessarily true. What percentage of people benefit and what percentage don’t. It might be the same percentages even when the numbers increase. I think it’s foolish to think that we’re 100% successful and just by decreasing our numbers we will have happier clients.
Hey Marc,
Nice response. however, personally I would not have acknowledged that individual. It is obvious that She/he whomever has an agenda which didn’t dignify an answer from you. In my humble opinion.
Now, is it possible to see/handle 40-50 clients a week. Well I believe that you are aware of the fact that when I worked for Dynamic Changes I saw 14 clients a day 5 days a week. Let’s do the math 14 times 5 = 70. Now mind you I did that for over a year. I was never fatigued in fact the more clients that I saw the more energized I became. When you love what you do and do what you love and you do it with passion well it’s easy. Oh and I was 64 years young at that time.
Keep up the good work Marc. Our profession need more hypnotists like you. Once again great response which I enjoyed and if it was meant for me thanks, however I believe that the intended individual was oblivious to what you were communicating.
Love & peace,
Michael Anthony
Hi Michael,
Thanks for adding your work experience to the numbers controversy.
I can’t shy away from outright attacks on a trainer just because what she’s doing goes counter to what someone else’s belief system allows them to accept. After all, we are hypnotists, and we know that our belief system is changeable.
When I was studying nutrition and alternative healing methods, there was an interesting phenomena that was pointed out to me. There were doctors working in the medical field doing complimentary or alternative medicine that was counter to the status quo. This was especially apparent in the cancer field. Some of these doctors were brought before the licensing boards because of complaints lodged against them from other doctors, not their patients. Some were penalized even when they had many patient testimonies as to the effectiveness of the treatment. The patient outcome was inconsequential to the medical board, they just wanted the doctor to follow the approved protocol.
So it disturbs me when hypnotists seek to smear a productive hypnotist because they’ve become more successful. I think we should learn from them and see how we can incorporate their success into our own.
Marc
I find it very hard to adequately meet the needs in a session one on one seeing that many clients per 5 day week. In a group yes possibly. I am not saying it can not be done but wow I never want to be that busy.
Hi Tom,
Thanks for adding to the comment stream here.
The good news here is that you have choice. You can increase your waiting list, refer them to another hypnotist in the area, or just create a great reputation as a very desirable sought out practitioner who gets results, but it’s just very hard to get an appointment. If you get too many clients, you can always raise your prices and find the price point that supplies you with the number of clients you want to work with per week.
You can also experiment with how to streamline your practice without draining your own personal resources. You don’t have to, but it’s an option. I know a hypnotist that worked out of an office that had a flight of stairs clients had to climb up. He told me that he would condition his clients to start going into trance as soon as they started walking up those stairs. By the time they got to his office the induction was over and he proceeded to work on their issue.
There is more that we can do when we have choice, and that’s what this type of training is designed to do. Give you a framework that works, and let you customize it to your needs and those of your clients.
Marc